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Cafe Doom  |  HELP!  |  General help  |  Another gun question
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Author Topic: Another gun question  (Read 7131 times)

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Offline GrinReaper

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Another gun question
« on: November 25, 2004, 05:24:35 PM »
If you found a slug buried in a concrete wall, would it be possible to id the type of gun that it came from, just by looking at it?

Offline Ed

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2004, 06:04:41 PM »
If you found a slug buried in a concrete wall, would it be possible to id the type of gun that it came from, just by looking at it?

Hmmm :scratch: doubtful, I'd say.  Apart from anything else, unless it was an armour piercing rifle round, I doubt it would pitch into a concrete wall, unless it was extremely soft concrete.  Usually you'd just be left with an impact mark after the bullet had bounced off - I was once narrowly missed by a ricochet, and looked down to see the bullet at my feet, bent in half and still extremely hot to the touch :D

To cut a long story short - if you know a bit about guns and ballistics, you could probably tell what calibre the round was, but again it would depend on several factors; the amount of deformation (a full metal jacket round will deform a lot less than a lead slug), the density of the material it struck, the angle it struck at, etc.  But it's unlikely that even a ballistics expert could tell you exactly what weapon it came from, unless that weapon has a very unusual rifling - the lands and grooves leave an impression on the bullet, which is visible to the naked eye.  You would have to do your homework on this basis, and find a gun with distinctive characteristics in the rifling of its barrel, and I would make it a full metal jacket round :)

Hope that helps.
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Offline GrinReaper

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2004, 06:37:54 PM »
Thanks for that!

Offline Neuromancer

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2004, 09:05:37 PM »
You can always just be general with it... (Its a 38 caliber round blah blah blah)

Looking at it (under a microscope, can tell you what type of gun it comes out of, but htat usually involves a forensic specialist with some time to analyze. cross reference, and make good guesses).  But a custom barrel on any gun will throw that off.

Generality is the best way to go with that.

Not all soft rounds that hit concrete are distended or flattened, (look at Blunts example) depends on the density of the round, the tensile strength of the concrete, trajectory and velocity.  (A fat slow round will retain its shape better then a high speed round).

Also if the round passed through anything else before hitting the concrete will effect it.  (IE passing through a shoulder, or maybe some car windows etc)



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Offline Ed

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2004, 02:40:37 PM »
Just wondering - is one of your characters carrying out a hit?  If so, there are a few other things you might like to know for the sake of realism :) 

Believe it or not, I once ended up doing some crime scene photographs of a shot-up house, which led to some interesting conversations.  Plus one of my neighbours is in the CID, so I often plugged him for information on procedural stuff for my novel, which he's only too happy to provide, along with a few embellishments here and there on the latest forensic breakthroughs ;)
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

Offline speyeder

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2004, 11:42:54 AM »
You would be able to determine what type of round it was, as well as have a general idea of what type weapon it was fired from. If it is buried in a concrete wall, it may have deformed considerably making it harder to identify. Some rounds are "jacketed" and can pierce solid materials. Some rounds are designed to fragment when they hit their target, and others are parrabellum (spelling?) rounds the "tumble" and do more damage to tissue. So many things affect projetiles that it is hard to speculate without all the elements being known.  :scratch:

Offline Neuromancer

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2004, 07:24:48 PM »
Oddly enough I was watching law and order after reading this and the brought out a mafia don to help them with a case.  I don not know how real the information is, but it seemed to make a lot of sense.

They ruled out a contract killing because it was in a gated parking lot.

He said contract killers, first have an escape route planned, second tru to pick a confined area for the target (forcing the target to come to the killer rather than having to chase it).  And third puts a concrete wall behind the vic so that missed shots will be MORE LIKELY to flatten out on hitting the wall making an ID of the round harder (not impossible just harder)

Just some random info for ya ;)


Yes I am a writer, but my critics call me a typist.--Salem's Lot

Offline Ed

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2004, 07:44:34 PM »
Sounds feasible :scratch:  A (good) contract killer would probably have at least two escape routes planned too.  He would also be using a 'clean' weapon - one that hadn't been used in any crimes before (you wouldn't want to be serving time for something you didn't do). 
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

Offline Neuromancer

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2004, 08:03:55 PM »
Unless of course you are trying to set something underhanded up ;)

Yes I am a writer, but my critics call me a typist.--Salem's Lot

Offline GrinReaper

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 10:42:32 PM »
if i was planning a hit i'd have 3 escape routes planned, plus ninja-style smoke bombs, just in case!  ;D

Offline Ed

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Re: Another gun question
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2004, 06:58:59 AM »
Personally, I don't think I'd bother - I'd be content to hold a grudge :D
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

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