A little help with some research...

[littlelaniec]

For those of you who live in or around London who are familiar with the Dockands, I'd love to know more about it. The research on the internet is so general. What I'd like to know is more detail of the streets, stores, more about the poorer, seedier side of town. Maybe pictures of the area?

I'm using this as my location for the novel I'm presently working on.

Thank you.
There's nothing like the personal aspect of a place.

Lanie

[Geoff_N]

Lania, to absorb the necessary intricacies of the milieu of a place you intend to have your characters living in, you must go there. I know it is fiction, and a passing through can be researched on the web or books, film, and TV, but these do not fill your nostrils with the odours, those small aspects of the environment that add living touches can only be expienced first hand. Alternatively, make up a fictional place, but apart from when I base stories on other planets this is a copout for me. My stomach warms and coos when I can inject intricacies of real local geography that I know some readers will say: Ah, I know that corner, that quayside, that bridge she's just rolled his body over..."

I've travelled over Britain and Europe quite extensively in the last three years just for writerly research. I've been arrested twice in gathering environmental authenticity for my stories. I stayed in a north London hotel in order to walk the length of the Prime Meridian to south London to get a feel for the location. I annoyed my wife, by taking a cheap flight and cheaper accomodation in Majorca while she had to stay in the UK at her job, in order for my senses to absorb the surroundings, and spend time in reference libraries.

Easier said than done? Yes. Have I used the milieu of places I've not been to? Sadly yes -- I couldn't justify the expense of going to the Cook Islands, Carnarvon in West Australia and Winnipeg. I had to find people who lived there and annoy them until they told me more than I needed to know. One source I use is the online scrabble game site http://www.itsyourturn.com you can leave messages for each other when making moves, and you can see where they live - if they register with real info! Not only have I made many friends that way, half of the people I play have bought my books!

I grovel apologies for not helping you with the London docklands, I've walked through a few years ago, but know it insufficiently to help you.

Geoff

[Ed]

I don't know whether I agree with that or not, Geoff.  Doyle (?) wrote all his Tarzan novels without ever setting foot on African soil.  Same goes for Stoker writing about Transylvania and his journey there.  I suppose modern readers are more sophisticated, and a visit to the place would certainly help the writer, but I'm not sure it's absolutely necessary.  Another instance I can think of is Cynthia Ozeck writing about life inside a concentration camp - many holocaust survivers would not believe she hadn't been there.

I don't think I've ever been to Docklands in London, but AFAIK it's all been redeveloped and it's a prime location now, rather than a seedy place.  Jan (Missy) would be the best person to ask about London, because she lives and was raised there.  My recollections of London streets are of red brick terraced houses under slate roofs, front doors that open straight onto the pavement (sidewalk).  Very few areas still have cobbles.  Street lighting is yellow, from sodium lamps, like the rest of Britain.  What else?   Net curtains at all the windows ( a British staple).  Black cabs with noisy diesel engines (sound like old tractors).  Another strange thing that struck me was how quiet the residential streets were - there was always a low hum of traffic noise in the background, but it always seemed the traffic was elsewhere.  It was generally warm, too - cities are usually a bit warmer than the countryside anyway.

I hope some of that helps, Lanie, but Jan's definitely the person to ask

[Dan]

Hey lanie - i've been living in London about 4 years now and know it pretty well.
Docklands is now a built up business area SE of the 'city' (ie the business district: Bank/Morgate/Ldn Bridge etc). If you want real grittiness then you need South or East London.
East London you're talking Mile End, Hackney, West Ham - home of the Cockneys etc.
South Ldn you have Brixton, Clapham, Stretford etc

Personally i'd say the you want East London (have you ever seen Eastenders? It's a popular UK soap opera - i'd recommend getting hold of it, i'm sure it's easy to download or get on cable - it's full of stereotypes but will definately get you a feel for the place). It's dirty, gritty and in some places downright dangerous. Probably the worst are of Ldn to end up in the middle of the night with no money...

Of course you could set in in sunny North London with it's Victorian houses, tree-lined streets and happy happy joy joy people...like me 

To get a better feel, have a look at this (Zone 1 is the city centre):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colourmap.pdf

[littlelaniec]

Thank you all for your help. I downloaded the map, Dan. 
And, Blunt, it was Edgar Rice Burroughs who wrote the Tarzan series: my Dad bought me every book and yes, I read them all and saw all of the Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller (to me, there is no other Tarzan).

The last time I was in London, I was 18: a VERY long time ago!

Lanie

[Geoff_N]

You are right, Ed. Much good fiction comes straight out of our heads, and we learn vicariously about unvisited environments. I too enjoyed Tarzan and still possess many Edgar Rice Burroughs original paperbacks - including some from his own publishing business. I clicked on this bio - fascinating stuff. I loved the fact that a) he was a pencil sharpener salesman and b) 'cos it gave him much spare time he read pulp fiction and realised he could write stuff 'just as rotten'. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Rice_Burroughs

Those were the days  <sigh>

Geoff

[SharonBell]

I think it may be helpful if you DON'T know a place too well. My first pass at my first novel was sooooo bogged down in details that I thought everyone should know about quaint Baltimore, that my readers choked. I think a sense of setting is key, and a city or neighborhood can become a character in a book, but I learned too much detail will stop the reader.

A pencil sharpener salesman? Yeesh. Those were the days!

[littlelaniec]

I agree, Sharon. We only need to know enough to make it authentic. But, we still need to have our facts straight.

Lanie

[Ed]

And, Blunt, it was Edgar Rice Burroughs who wrote the Tarzan series:

Ah!  I knew it was a double-barrelled name, but I couldn't remember it.  He still never set foot in Africa, though

Geoff - that's priceless.  A pencil sharpener salesman?  Jeysus - I can't image there being a time in history when that was a lucrative enterprise

[littlelaniec]

My husband's grandmother used to sort rags!

And, you're welcome about the name, Blunt! You're right, I would never have known he never step foot in Africa. And, i would imagine it would have been harder to research back then.

Lanie