Saddam Hanged

[Ed]

Hard to miss the news, really.  Saddam Hussein was put to death at 6am this morning, local time, and Iraqis are apparently dancing in the streets.  Could this be a turning point in the fortunes of Iraq, or will things get worse?  Has Saddam now reached the status of martyr?

Personally, I don't think his death will make any difference for the better, and I'm not sure things can get much worse over there.  I've got mixed feelings about the death penalty, too - I don't think there's anything colder than state sanctioned, cold blooded murder, but I also think it's just as well he's dead.  Kept in prison for life, there was always the possibility he might eventually be freed and take up where he left off.

[neilmarr]

I also think hanging is a pretty twisted way to send an anti-violence message, Ed. But let's look on the bright side; it really does round off the story well. Saddam's the ideal subject for faction, and now his history is top-n-tailed. Neil

[SharonBell]

As an American who doesn't believe we should be in Iraq, and wishes we could get the hell out, I have mixed feelings about this. It does give closure, of a sort, to the families whose lives he destroyed. But, there is something about justice being delayed for so long for them that makes it sad. How many died waiting for this justice?

And, I can't help feel (I should be looking for the phone taps soon) that he was the US puppet--run amok. We have meddled so often in other people's affairs, that you'd think we'd learn as a nation. We didn't do anything about Rwanda, and the genocide there, the Sudan is a mess, and I can point to hundreds of other state sanctioned crimes against children and women, but had there been oil...well...you know the drill.

Yesterday, I bought a hybrid car, because among other things, I'm sick of the killing for oil.  Voting with my purchasing power, since, voting for Gore didn't seem to work. They just threw out our votes and said they didn't count. But I digress....

[Walker]

It may be true that he committed many crimes against humanity, but he's not much different than many other so called 'leaders', except that he was an easier target to nail down. Perhaps some of the other leaders of society should look at this and not try so hard to distance themselves from the cold reality and finality of death. After all, with a slight tipping of the scales it could be they who make that lonely trip to the gallows. In spite of my feelings about S.H., which amount to nothing, really, I still feel that this is a sad day for humanity. I feel like we're slipping backwards at an alarming rate.

[CrimsonKing]

This whole war is just America's vain attempt to show the world that we mean business.  We won't be attacked without attacking back.  But to the rest of the world it just shows how dumb we are since we didn't even go after the people who attacked us in the first place.  We went after an easier target, just because it held more oil interest for us.  The funny thing is that if we took care of ourselves, and let other countries handle their own business, we wouldn't be such a big target for these types of attacks.  Look at Switzerland.  When was the last time somebody terrorized them?  I'm all for helping people who need it, but there are plenty of things in the good old U S of A that need fixing.  We are like the manic depressive OCD schizo who likes to dish out mental health advice.  No wonder the whole world views us a pretentious.

[Ed]

The whole thing is fubar, and I can't understand why the UK goes along with it.  I think the French have a better foreign policy than we do - they don't suffer from terrorist attacks, haven't played any part in these ill conceived wars and they have banned Muslim women/girls from wearing the hijab in schools (sensible all the way round, if you ask me).

US/UK policy seems like creeping imperialism, but everywhere they try to topple a government and set up their own puppet government, it backfires, which generally means more anti western feeling and even greater instability.  Makes you wonder if these are the same generals we had in the early days of WW1.

[Ed]

For those who would like to see the unedited video of the execution - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=863ce7d4a3&p=1  It's taken on a mobile phone, so the footage is a little shaky, but more complete than what you see on the news. 

A couple things make me wonder, though.  They put a black cloth around his neck, supposedly to stop the rope burning his skin - why?  It's not as if he's going to feel it if he's dead, is it?  When they hang people in the movies, the stuntmen wear a harness with hooks around the neck for the rope to locate into.  Note in the video that two men carefully place the rope around his neck.  It isn't just one man slinging the noose over his head and pulling it tight - two men carefully place it over a black cloth. 

Plus he's wearing that big black coat.  Again, we're given an explanation - it's cold in there and they don't want him to shiver.  Eh?  Could be they needed a coat that big to make sure the harness and girdle were hidden from the spectators.

Maybe I'm just seeing a conspiracy where there isn't one, but something doesn't ring true there

[Geoff_N]

Umm, and then a double agreed to be dead for the corpse photos and funeral? Well, it's been done before - according to The Holy Blood and Holy Grail, Jesus's family and friends bribed someone to take Jesus' place on the cross (whose destitute family then benefited from the fee) - and not that uncommon in those days.

I too feel uncomfortable about the death penalty even though I have no doubt he was guilty of mass murder and torture, and remained a potential threat while he remained rescuable.

Is the Swiss and French model of foreign affairs really the more humane for the world as a whole? France tends to pay lip service to UN mandates but tells its soldiers in Afghanistan to stay playing cards in their barracks - does that really help stop the Taliban and Al Qaida from gaining influence? It is all a mess, and one largely of the West's making with stupid investments in corrupt (but anti communist or oil rich) countries. Investments of arms and covert operations such as in Saddam is a prime example of how meddling backfires.

This isn't a new problem. Ancient Sparta debated with Athens on the morality of interfering in nearby independent island states they considered corrupt.

Oops, I'm being dragged away for a walk around the block...

Geoff

[Robert M. Blevins]

Polls in America show most people are fed up with Bush's foreign policy. His approval rating is lower than Nixon's. There is this myth outside of America that most Americans support Bush's imperialist tactics because of 9-11.
This is not true. Some supported the war at the start, but almost no one does now. Truth is, no one can rein in Mr. Bush. He basically just does what he wants to do, and he doesn't care about polls, Congress, the Senate, or what the average American thinks. The foreign press calls him a cowboy, correctly.
People here have NOT forgotten the ten long years we fought in Vietnam. And they are not enjoying the evening news with the latest reports of casualties.

At the beginning of the war in Iraq, I warned what would happen if we stayed there more than six months. Our soldiers would become targets, that's all. And they have...

"Come on over the border and take your shot at the hated infidels!"

American soldiers in Iraq are nothing more than those little ducks you see at the fair, where you pay your quarter and take ten shots. Only the ducks in Bush's little fair shoot back...using roadside bombs and AK-47's.    And unlike Vietnam, there are a far greater number of soldiers fighting over there who were in the National Guard or Reserves when they were called for duty in Iraq.
I was in the Regular Army for two years. I joined up AFTER Vietnam. (Robert=Not Exactly Stupid, lol) 
Trust me on this one: Reservists and National Guardsmen are in NO WAY prepared to go to war in Iraq. These are guys who were working at some warehouse or other job, and eight weeks later they are dumped in Iraq with full combat gear...
I trained with these guys, and my sister was a Reservist for ten years. THEY ARE NOT COMBAT-READY BY ANY MEANS.
You need experienced soldiers, but since America has switched to an all-volunteer army, Bush had to strip the Guard and Reserves to fill manpower needs in Iraq. It's a damn shame. Many of these poor souls have families and children, and joined up with the Guard thinking they would never do anything but fill sandbags if the local river floods... They train one weekend a month and two weeks a year somewhere. 'Train' is a liberal word for what NG's and Reservists actually do. I am not picking on them, but showing why they are not ready for something like Iraq.

I know most of you reading this are from the United Kingdom, or Europe. I want you to have hope. In the next election there is going to be a major grass-roots backlash against this sort of irresponsible policy. The next President WILL be a Democrat, this is almost assured. If Mr. Gore runs, I will support him. If Hilary wins the nomination, I will worry. I have doubts if Hilary could WIN, and that could mean another four years of ....

I've lately been working on a book other than sci-fi. I go to the manuscript once in a while when I am in a bad mood.  The title of the book: 'Why America Is So Screwed Up ... And How To Fix It'

I may use a pseudonym for that one.  It's not like I want the FBI photographing my ass everytime I step out the door...(lol)