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Offline Woody

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« on: November 15, 2008, 06:55:41 PM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:35:14 PM by Woody »
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Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

Offline Woody

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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 08:00:55 PM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:37:01 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

Offline Ed

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Re: In my mind this is poetry, but is it? (C&C welcome)
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 04:48:50 AM »
TBH, I don't know, but the way I understand it is the only thing that separates poetry from prose is, in poetry, the writer decides on where they want the line breaks. So I'd say it is a poem - what I'd call a prose poem. I'm no expert, though. Delph or one of the others would be able to offer better feedback than me on stuff like this :afro:
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

delph_ambi

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Re: In my mind this is poetry, but is it? (C&C welcome)
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 05:37:46 AM »
Quick answer: this is poetic prose. It's elegantly written, but it is far too diffuse to be a poem. I have to go offline now, but should be back in a few days to elaborate on that statement if necessary.

Offline Woody

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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 10:46:00 AM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:37:15 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

delph_ambi

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Re: In my mind this is poetry, but is it? (C&C welcome)
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2008, 01:02:00 PM »
Okay, I've gone through your poem and removed all the repetitions that diffuse the effect and in my view don't add anything much other than more words, beautiful though they may be. This is what is left:

The sun rises soon and I must leave.
Until later – farewell – tell no-one.
I’ll wait for you at dusk
looking to hold you in my arms,
my mouth upon your neck.

You’re confused, but this is no sin.
If I could die for you I would, but I cannot.
Go home now, and say your goodbyes.
Don’t worry.
There is no death, no pain.
Live extends infinitely.
I love the night — and so will you.

It's not exactly a poem, because it uses no poetic devices other than basic line breaks. It ignores rhythm, assonance, alliteration, and all the other bits and pieces that lend musicality to a piece of writing. It is, however, a poem of sorts. It uses the essence of your writing. It conveys the same message, but in a stronger (in my view) form, because it is much shorter and it packs a punch, rather than relying on clichés, abstractions and generalisations. If this were my poem, I would now look to add some concrete, specific imagery that would make this refer to one particular vampire and his victim, rather than a generic vampire, which is how it reads at the moment. Always avoid the generic in poetry. You have to be as specific as you possibly can in order to make the poem memorable. If it's not memorable, it hasn't worked.

Offline Woody

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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2008, 01:27:40 PM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:37:29 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

Offline Ed

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Re: In my mind this is poetry, but is it? (C&C welcome)
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2008, 01:37:14 PM »
Interesting stuff, Delph. Thanks for that. I can never get my head around poetry that doesn't rhyme - if you're talking syllabic word counts and alternating rhymes, I can follow up to a point, but poetry is really not my thing. I wish it was.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 01:38:00 PM by Ed »
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

Offline Woody

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 06:22:14 PM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:35:59 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

Offline Caz

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Re: A Letter From the Grim Reaper (for all those concerned) [C&C welcomed]
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 02:28:52 PM »
It's not a bad poem and to be honest pretty topical.

I like the last verse it works well but I have to say that the 'R U 1' and alike lets the piece down. I'm not a fan of text speak.

Anyways, as always feel free to ignore my thoughts.
Some may say slaughtered is too strong a word...but I like the sound of it.

delph_ambi

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Re: A Letter From the Grim Reaper (for all those concerned) [C&C welcomed]
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 03:13:27 PM »
I would say it's a letter, not a poem. As a letter, you can get away with the textspeak.

If you want it to be a poem, you'll need to cut, cut, cut, tighten, tighten, excise, delete, etc. You'll also have to forget about centering the text - that's purely for soppier greetings cards, so is entirely inappropriate.

You've achieved a certain rhythm in the writing, but it's the rhythm of song lyrics, not poetry, ie it's imposed rather than integral.

Good ideas in this one, particularly the ending, but I think it needs a major re-think if you want it to be poetry.

Offline Woody

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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 06:54:14 AM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:36:14 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

delph_ambi

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Re: A Letter From the Grim Reaper (for all those concerned) [C&C welcomed]
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 07:18:47 AM »
Poe's Raven doesn't have a single word that's not essential to the text. Samuel Taylor Coleridge's "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" is much, much longer, but again, doesn't have a single excess word.

Your poem rambles around the same subject matter, only occasionally focusing in tightly. It needs to be more focused all the time. If you're going to repeat anything (using slightly different or the same words) it has to be done in such a way that it winds up the tension rather than diffusing it, which is what is happening at the moment.

Have you used the best possible words in the best possible order? Or have you used a lot of words that pretty much mean what you want them to say in more or less the right order with a bit of repetition to make sure the message gets through? If it's the latter, it needs cuts. If it's the former, you're already Poe or Coleridge so don't need any further advice  :cheesy:

Offline Woody

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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2008, 01:55:21 PM »
posting here has proven unwise. ed will keep your stuff after he bans you. only he knows why.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:36:29 PM by Woody »
___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy

delph_ambi

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Re: A Night Crawler Called Ween
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 02:54:44 PM »
The syntax MUST be right in poetry. It isn't here. In other words, sentences aren't sentences, so the reader trips up all the time.

To check for basic syntactical errors, format your poem as a paragraph and run it through the Word grammar-checker, or similar program. It won't pick up everything, but it'll give you a good idea as to whether you're writing in sentences or unfinished clauses and phrases. Then go through and correct the grammar. Once you're absolutely certain it's right, make sure the word order is natural; in other words, the way you would normally speak it in conversation. Once you've done that, with any luck all your forced end-line rhymes will have disappeared.

Writing rhyming poetry is a special skill. If you've not written much poetry, you're far better off working on basic poetic skills without the difficulty of strict rhyme schemes. Stick to free verse for the time being. Once you've mastered that, you can start playing around with meter, and only when you can do that effortlessly and with confidence should you attempt end line rhymes.

The exception to the rule is song lyrics, where if the music is good enough you can get away with blue murder in the writing.

 

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