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Desiderata

Started by Ed, July 16, 2009, 03:08:39 PM

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Ed

This guy I'm doing some work for at the moment has this framed in his study. I read through it and thought what good advice it was. His copy had the words 'Found in St Paul's Church Baltimore 1692', which turns out to be false - it was actually written by Max Ehrmann in the early 20th century. Nevertheless, we could all do worse than heed the sentiments expressed. :smiley:




Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

JonP

... and wear sunscreen :)

Ed

Quote from: JonP on July 16, 2009, 07:00:04 PM
... and wear sunscreen :)

Must admit that crossed my mind, too.
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

Caz

It's kinda peaceful. I like it. Makes me think the world's not such a bad place...well, for a minute anyway.
Some may say slaughtered is too strong a word...but I like the sound of it.

Pharosian

I bought a poster with this on it back in high school, and had a fair bit of it memorized for a while. Good stuff. I just wish more people took note of line two...  ;)

Geoff_N

I dunno. Yes, the goody stuff about how to treat others and not be vain is the way of most, if not all religions and creeds. However, it smacks too much of don't do anything special for me. All that cautiion attitude and not take chances makes for a  boring life. Follow it and I'd never ride my bike too fast or rock scramble on my own, take on a new career when I could be taking it easy.

It reminds me of that quote from Nietzsche: A subject for a great poet would be God's boredom after the seventh day of creation.
Seems to me Max Ehrmann might have been that poet - aren't I awful?

Geoff

Ed

 :scratch: Dunno, Geoff, but I don't see any of that stuff in it - are we reading the same thing? :huh:

I guess it means different things to different people, but it struck a chord with me, and I thought the whole thing was pretty upbeat and affirmative.
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

delph_ambi

I'm with Geoff on this. I've known 'Desiderata' for years, and remember as a student thinking it was wonderful, but  now, certain phrases in it are, to me, simply wrong.

'Go placidly...' No thanks. Sounds boring.

'Avoid loud and vexatious persons...' No thanks. They can be
inspirational, though seriously annoying at times.

'If you compare yourselves to others...' If you don't compare yourselves to others, you'll be unlikely to achieve much in your chosen field, especially in the arts. You need some competitiveness.

'Exercise caution in your business affairs...' What, and never take any risks? No thanks.

'you have a right to be here'. No you don't. You give yourself purpose. Nobody, no deity, nor mother nature, nor anything, has given you that.

'no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should' There's no 'should' about it. That's a horribly passive point of view, and once again, suggests some sort of deistic intervention, ie an imaginary friend who's going to make sure everything's all right
in the end.

'Be at peace with God...' Meaningless for an atheist.

This is great advice on how to live a quiet, dull, passive and pious existence.

I remember at school there were a couple of hymns we sang that struck me as being total opposites, and as a child, I didn't understand how that could be. One was 'The Lord's my shepherd...' and would fit perfectly with the above, with all its talk of green pastures and calm water. The other began, 'Not for ever by still waters...' and went on to extol adventure and risk, as far as I recall. I far preferred that one.

Ed

It depends upon where you're starting from, I suppose. My life is often too busy and I find myself craving peace and tranquility from time to time. If your life is relatively quite, studious, academic in comparison, you already have what this manifesto seeks to provide you with.

Quote from: delph_ambi on July 19, 2009, 05:19:00 AM


'Go placidly...' No thanks. Sounds boring.

I quite often 'go anxiously' to work, so placidly sounds better.

Quote'Avoid loud and vexatious persons...' No thanks. They can be
inspirational, though seriously annoying at times.

People like this overcomplicate my already frought existence, so no thanks.

Quote'If you compare yourselves to others...' If you don't compare yourselves to others, you'll be unlikely to achieve much in your chosen field, especially in the arts. You need some competitiveness.

But it also says "you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself" so it's a warning to moderate your view of your achievements when compared with other peoples'. Find your place in life and don't feel like you have to earn a million a minute to be successful. Likewise, don't lord it over those people who are less fortunate than yourself. Seems like good advice to me. There's still room for ambition, but not rampant, all consuming ambition.

Quote'Exercise caution in your business affairs...' What, and never take any risks? No thanks.

It says be cautious. It doesn't say never take any risks. You can still be cautious and still take calculated risks. The alternative is to make no plans and take stupid risks. Where's the fun in that?

Quote'you have a right to be here'. No you don't. You give yourself purpose. Nobody, no deity, nor mother nature, nor anything, has given you that.

To me, this means you should be able to just 'be' without feeling you must always have a purpose. I think that's quite a comforting thought.

Quote'no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should' There's no 'should' about it. That's a horribly passive point of view, and once again, suggests some sort of deistic intervention, ie an imaginary friend who's going to make sure everything's all right
in the end.

To me, this means don't take the weight of the world's problems upon your own shoulders. What will be will be, without you spending your time worrying about it. Obviously, if it is in your power to make change, you should, but it's not all your problem to bear.

Quote'Be at peace with God...' Meaningless for an atheist.

Whatever you conceive Him to be. He might be Mother Nature. He might be an alien. It doesn't matter - things are pretty much as they are meant to be. Don't worry, be happy.

QuoteThis is great advice on how to live a quiet, dull, passive and pious existence.

I see it as great advice on how to find peace in a frought existence. We live in a society obsessed with celebrity, possessions, keeping up with the Joneses. Chasing the golden carrot at the expense of everything else. In this context, I think it's good advice.

Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

Pharosian

Quote from: delph_ambi on July 19, 2009, 05:19:00 AM
I'm with Geoff on this. I've known 'Desiderata' for years, and remember as a student thinking it was wonderful, but  now, certain phrases in it are, to me, simply wrong.
:
:
'If you compare yourselves to others...' If you don't compare yourselves to others, you'll be unlikely to achieve much in your chosen field, especially in the arts. You need some competitiveness.

'Exercise caution in your business affairs...' What, and never take any risks? No thanks.


Delph, you make some good points, but I think you've taken a couple of these out of context, particularly "Exercise caution in your business affairs..." the full line continues, "... for the world is full of trickery." This isn't telling a businessman not to take chances in the market--say with a new product offering; it's telling him not to be a gullible sap. It's a warning to be on the lookout for other people who don't have your best interests at heart, not to be timid or not to take legitimate risks.

And the one about "If you compare yourself to others..." goes on to say "... you MAY become vain and bitter." Now, here we can argue the chicken and egg question. Does being vain and bitter cause someone to compare herself to others, or does the comparison lead to the vanity and bitterness? I suspect it's the former, actually, but again, the author is simply warning against an UNHEALTHY comparison. I'm sure we've all known those who are always trying to assure themselves of retaining the top spot--not for the sake of the achievement, but for the sake of the position. You're right in that you've got to compare your skills to someone else's in the arts (or sports or business) to know how well you're doing. But your first priority should be on developing the skill and taking pride in that, however far it takes you. And if that's only 2nd chair no matter how many hours you practice, then you need to be satisfied that you've done your best or go find an orchestra that isn't as good so you can be 1st chair. Some people would become bitter about being "passed over" for promotion to 1st chair because they'd been there longer than the young upstart that came in and got the spot "because the conductor likes her" or some nonsense like that.

Quote'you have a right to be here'. No you don't. You give yourself purpose. Nobody, no deity, nor mother nature, nor anything, has given you that.

'no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should' There's no 'should' about it. That's a horribly passive point of view, and once again, suggests some sort of deistic intervention, ie an imaginary friend who's going to make sure everything's all right
in the end.

'Be at peace with God...' Meaningless for an atheist.

For the most part, I agree with your points here. I get so frustrated and annoyed when people try to find "God's will" in some tragedy or other. But at the same time, "...be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be" is good advice in the sense of "hey, don't blame God for your problems." It would be better for lots of people if they took responsibility for their current circumstances and didn't ask how God could have let this happen to them.

Quote

This is great advice on how to live a quiet, dull, passive and pious existence.


Hmm. You use quiet as though it's a pejorative, but 90+% (guessing here) of people lead quiet lives. They never make the news, they never get arrested, they never cause a scandal... and yet most of them are happy, I think--to the extent the economy and their health allow them to be. Quiet and dull are not synonymous, unless maybe you're an adrenaline junkie. Being an adventure-seeker is a fine thing if it suits your temperament, but we're not all cut out to explore the Amazon or fight a war or start our own business....

delph_ambi

I probably should point out that I'm a naturally argumentative devil's advocate sort of a person...

However, I'm also self-employed, extremely competitive, and take what some people would consider absurd risks in both my personal and professional life. One of my favourite places to be (seriously) is the London Underground during rush hour. Love it! If I'm sitting next to the sea, I don't want sunshine and swaying palm trees, I want a storm, preferably with ice involved. I'm not much into sport, but if I were, I would sooner be a rally driver than an Olympic curling champion.

This probably goes some way to explaining why although I can admire it to a certain extent, I could never live my life entirely according to the advice given in Desiderata.

Geoff_N

I'm with Delph although I accept that for folk like Ed leading frantic lives whose livelihoods depends on short-term contracts, etc, then the urge  for a take-it-easy mantra is appealing.

To me, the  poem, like so many Christian ethics, persuades people to not challenge injustice, 'turn the other cheek', take the easy way out. In the past it has stifled scientific and cultural boldness and discovery.

As you say, horses for courses.

Geoff

delboy

It's one of those verses that everyone takes something different from. I don't think any of it is too literal. I like to go placidly on my motorbike at 120mph and 40mph downhill on my pushbike. You can't go any other way but placidly at these speeds - you need every neural connection of concentration to stay alive. To me that's what placidity in this context is all about - inner peace through focus, no worries or stresses about the rest of the world. Forced meditation, if you like. There's few things more placid than speeding under your own control. Nothing more exhilerating either, Yet, I equally adore stopping in the middle of nowhere, as far from people as possible and just enjoy the silence and beauty of nature. I love fishing - but I'll choose a river rather than a commercial lake - and I'll walk miles to be on my own. Yet, I'll also placidly turn up my guitar amp and play a loud rock'n'roll gig to the more people the better. When I read this, to me, it's about peace of mind and serenity. I'm sure we all have a multitude of ways of getting it. But so long as we're getting it, then that's cool.

Equally the stuff about comparing ourselves to others - the message isn't don't do this. It's do it with some knowledge about what you might find. Comparing yourself to people as a way of working out how you can better yourself, how you can improve, is wonderful. Comparing yourself with the sole purpose of putting yourself down is not so good.

You could do this what it means to me analysis for every line. And everyone would get something different from it.

I simply think we all build up a code of how we live our lives, and it's different for everyone. This verse, and a thousand other resources like it, along with life, and the people we meet, and the experiences we enjoy (or suffer) are the raw material from which we can create those codes. It's the same with everything - take from it what you need, don't put someone else down for needing something different from you, as they're likely to be at a different place in their journey, and be happy.

It's simple really. Yet it's the hardest thing there is. And it gets harder by the day, these days - with all the new information bombarding us every second. That's why a bit of peace and serenity, whether obtained at 100 miles an hour or whilst sitting on a rock is important.

Derek

"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker

Rev. Austin

Although it may no longer be the most relevant 'inspirational' piece, I think it's kinda nice.  But then I'm a Reverend so I would say that  ;)
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