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Woody
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« on: July 28, 2009, 12:40:37 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:11:17 PM by Woody » Logged

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Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
Ed
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 03:38:48 PM »

Good or bad?  huh

Mine hasn't arrived yet.
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Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 06:16:41 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:11:30 PM by Woody » Logged

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Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 09:32:47 PM »

I've just got mine. Probably won't start until tonight, maybe tomorrow. Those are encouraging words, Woody, and you've got me eager to delve in.

Not to disparage a book before I get properly started, but I flipped to a few random pages and examined a few lines of dialogue just to check on what is becoming a pet peeve of mine - dialogue attribution. I was a little let down to see that quite a few characters "muttered", "sung out", "replied" and "explained". I don't think I ever noticed stuff like that until I started learning about the craft of writing. Now, nearly any attribution other than "said" or "asked" stands out like a sore thumb.
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Jerry Enni lives in a small house in the center of the San Joaquin Valley with his beautiful family. By day he makes signs and by night he writes stories. To learn more about him, check out Clear Perspective, Blurry Lens
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 02:32:59 AM »

Again, that's all part of the era, I suppose, isn't it - and though 'he said' and 'she said' are divine, 'he muttered' is more descriptive of the scene. I think those sorts of attributes are ok. It's only when a character 'hissed' a sentence with no 's's in it, or 'hollered loudly', or you get rakes of adverbs of manner that it really irks me. I'm lucky, though, I find that I can pretty much ignore, or even begin to enjoy some authors' supposedly bad traits, for instance Hemingway's 'and's.

Woody - thanks for explaining your thoughts. I'm looking forward to getting stuck into mine, when it gets here.
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Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 02:56:21 PM »

Ironically, many contemporary  writers eschew using he said these days. Some very well - A.L. Kennedy, others poorly leading to confusion as in The Other Boleyn Girl by Philippa Gregory. Problem now is that when the occasional 'said' is used, it is no longer  invisible!

I've come part way through this topic. Could someone tell me what the book is? Only now I have just completed the second draft of Xaghra's Revenge, which concerns pirates and their ghosts...

Geoff
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Woody
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 03:58:59 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:11:51 PM by Woody » Logged

___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
Ed
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2009, 05:59:39 PM »

My copy arrived today. It is skinny, isn't it? Only 100 pages long.
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Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]
Woody
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2009, 06:08:56 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:12:08 PM by Woody » Logged

___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
Ed
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2009, 06:32:28 PM »

I'm already at page 11, and finding it quite a strange thought that I've read 10% of the book without even trying.
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Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 07:22:07 PM »

I downloaded it  free. I was expecting a tightly written narrative but found it quite loose.   scratch

Geoff
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Woody
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 07:25:49 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:12:22 PM by Woody » Logged

___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
Woody
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 07:30:33 PM »

mustn't have my stuff here, ed keeps it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:12:35 PM by Woody » Logged

___________________________________________________________
Writers Anonymous(http://www.writersanonymous.org.uk)-a source of sinister anthologies
Perception is nine tenths of the look. Brave Dave the Feather in Caribbean Conspiracy
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2009, 09:37:55 PM »

Quote
I was expecting a tightly written narrative but found it quite loose.

Not exactly sure what constitutes a tight or loose narrative, but I went through the first two chapters the same day the book arrived and wasn't particularly taken with the writing. It's subjective of course, and in all fairness, as Woody points out, it was written a long time ago. I think that's part of the reason it hasn't grabbed me yet - I'm having to get used to some unfamiliar language. Also I was a bit into my cups when I began reading,  Cheesy so that probably didn't help.

Fortunately the dialogue attributions, which I anticipated bugging the hell out of me, haven't bugged me at all. In fact I haven't even noticed them. One thing I did notice was the amount of commas used. Seems to me that there are more than necessary. I'm not real good with grammar, and comma usage, or improper comma usage, is something that I'm still trying to get a grip on.

I have a feeling that if F. Paul Wilson were to edit this one, he'd be deleting a lot of commas. Woody, this may tie in with the question you posted elsewhere on the board. Have a look and see what he has to say about comma usage in The Care and Feeding of a Style Sheet" by F. Paul Wilson:

http://www.cemeterydance.com/page/CDP/WritersColumnFPaulWilson
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Jerry Enni lives in a small house in the center of the San Joaquin Valley with his beautiful family. By day he makes signs and by night he writes stories. To learn more about him, check out Clear Perspective, Blurry Lens
Pharosian
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2009, 11:31:08 PM »

I finished the online version today. Many thanks to delboy for providing the link to that: I am *so* glad I didn't spend money on this. Yes, I know it was written a long time ago, so I'm taking that into account, but this is a book I will not be adding to my permanent collection.

Funny how different things bug different people. For me it was the excessive or overblown dialect used by some of the sailors. I guess Hodgson really wanted to emphasize the differences in speech patterns between the various characters. This is a perfect example of why it's a bad idea to try to perfectly imitate various characters' speech patterns throughout the entire manuscript. I think these days the suggestion is that you sprinkle the dialect in the first few sentences the character utters, and then just remind the reader that the character spoke with a Boston twang, Southern drawl, cockney accent, or whatever. Maybe the British readers won't notice it as much, but as an American, I could barely make out what old Williams was saying, especially when it came to "piy-diy". I worked most of it out by context and Jessop's translations, but Jeez.

I also thought a couple of the early chapter endings were handled more like commercial breaks: "And then, close upon this, there were further developments." You couldn't get away with something like that today, I'm guessing.
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