News:

Got a few minutes to kill? Try the Doom Flash Challenge :afro: - http://www.cafedoom.com/forum/index.php/board,36.0.html

Main Menu

Thriller - A genre to break into?

Started by elay2433, April 28, 2011, 09:31:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

elay2433

Just finished listening to Ted Dekker's The Priest's Graveyard. The premise sounded interesting and it received mostly glowing reviews on Amazon, so I took a shot. It was pretty awful. It started off great - a frame story where one woman is confessing to a priest. From there it flashes back to tell the story that led her there. It was odd, I thought, because as the story was supposedly related to the priest, the tense was often present (I'm guessing to up the suspense), but it rubbed me the wrong way. She kept relating these perilous situations and then go into interior monologue mode and wonder "What could I do, where could I go?" All the while, the reader was well aware that the danger was moot because she'd obviously survived.

Anyhow, there was a lot of character bending to plot, analogy laden description* and a ridiculously unbelivable plotline with some superfluous subplotting.

One of the things that made me stop listening for a moment and think to myself, "What the fuck? You can't be serious?" was when one of two main characters went on to describe a shocking, horrifying discovery via analogy by comparing it to discovering that Santa Claus wasn't real. Thing is, and I guess the author must've forgotten this, this particular character, in a bid to build sympathy earlier in the book described how she was the only kid in the neighborhood that didn't receive gifts on Christmas because her father believed it was a holiday dreamed up by corporations to sell useless crap. So Santa was never real to her, or if he was, it wasn't likely she looked upon him in a joyous light.

All this by a New York Times bestselling author.

I listened to this coming off the heels of listening to First Thrills, an anthology of seasoned thriller authors and the best newcomers to the genre. It sucked. Minus a few good stories, most of it was pretty rank, and full of all the stuff you learn not to do in any good creative writing book/course/resource (and often this was coming from one of the seasoned pros). Jefferey Deaver's story was pretty good, along with a few others (wish I could remember the names off the top of my head), but man, if this is the best the genre's got, then maybe this is a genre to tap.

Any thriller writers out there?

*One of the analogies I remember (because I asked my brother what he thought it meant) was, "The words came like nails." That one made me scratch my head. When I asked my bro about it he said, "Like tough, maybe, like pulling nails?" I suppose that might be, but it was used to describe the character's rambling. Like nails flying out of a nail gun maybe? I don't know. Wish I had a paperback copy to share a few more, because there were some bad ones.

delboy

I used to read a lot of thrillers in my youth - Desmond Bagley, Alistair Maclean, etc - and always imagined (at the time) that would be the genre I'd write in. But these days I struggle to find any good ones - even rereading the old ones doesn't bring back the magic that I recall. Most of the time I find myself saying that would never happen or  she'd never do that, or - like you - being brought out of the dream by poor writing (not saying I can do any better). It's still a genre that I feel I ought to enjoy, and maybe even have a bash at one day - but it's so plot-based, and plotting is chief amongst my weak points, so I suspect that I'll stick to stories where character and dialogue drive things along.

Derek

"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker

Ed

Sounds awful, Elay. I think books like this are part of the reason why the publishing industry is in trouble in the first place. I've read too many books like that. Best New Horror strikes me the same way -- I read it thinking if this is the best we've got then we're in big trouble. It's got to be down to more than just personal preference when you can find actual flaws in plotting and in the language of the story. Why does this stuff ever find its way into print? Is it nepotism, poor editorial standards, or something akin to an evolutionary bottleneck, where work is only chosen from a small pool of 'qualifying' authors/publications? I don't know. I think this may be part of the reason why there's an upsurge in the popularity of independent authors.
Planning is an unnatural process - it is much more fun to do something.  The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression. [Sir John Harvey-Jones]

elay2433

I think everything you mentioned, Ed, probably has a little to do with it.

I might be reading to much into what you said, Derek, but I think there might be something to it. You read a lot of thrillers in your youth, enjoyed them, but now rereading them doesn't bring back the magic. Could be a reception thing, I suppose, and the fact that the author knows his target audience. The Priest's Graveyard is loved by many if you judge by the Amazon reviews. It moves, never stops really, if you look at story alone. But the way the story was presented was sloppy and slow and really dragged on. I've become a more discerning (read picky) reader since I started to study storytelling, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. But it's hard for me to believe so many people thought this book was great. Maybe I would've enjoyed it when I was younger, but I doubt it. Then again, we change so much through the years, so I suppose it's possible.

delboy

I'm sure becoming a writer has a massive amount to do with it. It's almost impossible for me to read anything these days without that hat on, and whilst I might not be able to write any better than the writing I criticize the fact that I spot the issues destroys the fictional dream, and hence the enjoyment.

But I'm sure age and experience (both in terms of life, but also in the massive amount of books read, films watched, etc) also have a huge effect. Things that we could believe in and that resonate at one age have a far lessened impact at another. Luckily new things take their place - so hats off to these writers who are able to write for all generations.

Derk
"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker

marc_chagall

Quote from: delboy on April 30, 2011, 04:13:55 AM
Derk

?

Suddenly seeing you quite differently.  :scratch:

Yes, the problem is once you've been writing and thinking like a writer for a while, of course you can't help but be a bit critical. The only solution I've found is to read in a foreign language. I'm just reading fiction in French at the moment, and my French is so bad I'm lucky if I get the general sense of it all and can more or less work out what's going on. Rather than being a right ruddy pain, this is actually a good thing in many ways, as I've gone back to reading 'the story' and not worrying at all about the technique.

delboy

QuoteQuote from: delboy on Today at 09:13:55 AM
Derk

?

Suddenly seeing you quite differently

This computer is on it's way out - I type away and discover loads of letters haven't come out. I go back and put them in where I can. That one slipped by.

Dirk
"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker

JonP

I'd definitely buy a book by Dirk Rutherford.

LashSlash

Quote from: delph_ambi on April 30, 2011, 04:18:28 AM
[Yes, the problem is once you've been writing and thinking like a writer for a while, of course you can't help but be a bit critical. The only solution I've found is to read in a foreign language. I'm just reading fiction in French at the moment, and my French is so bad I'm lucky if I get the general sense of it all and can more or less work out what's going on. Rather than being a right ruddy pain, this is actually a good thing in many ways, as I've gone back to reading 'the story' and not worrying at all about the technique.
..... i know about 20 words in french - but my accent is perfect.....viva la technique

Grillmeat

QuoteI'd definitely buy a book by Dirk Rutherford.
Agreed. It has a certain swash buckling quality to it.  :dance:
OMG!! Soylent Green is people!!!

LashSlash

#10
Quote from: delboy on April 30, 2011, 08:20:32 AM

This computer is on it's way out - I type away and discover loads of letters haven't come out. I go back and put them in where I can. That one slipped by.

Dirk
... modern times: - once people used to blame their wives - now they blame it on the old  'puta ;)

delboy

The (ex) wife was to blame for many things, but stealing letters from within my words wasn't one of them.

Del
"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker

Pharosian

Quote from: JonP on April 30, 2011, 09:21:00 AM
I'd definitely buy a book by Dirk Rutherford.

I agree that Dirk Rutherford has a certain flair... unfortunately it reminds me of Dirk Pitt, the hero of Clive Cussler's execrable output. Which, coincidentally or not, falls into the same "thriller" category as the topic and which has the same problems mentioned in the first post. I admit that I'm basing this on having read exactly ONE of CC's many books. One was enough. It was Dragon published in 1990 and may or may not be representative--but I suspect it is.

delboy

I have a single Clive Cussler on my shelf awaiting reading - merely to see what all the fuss is about. But thus far, every time I finish a book and scan my shelves looking for the next one I pass over Clive. I suspect I may never read it.

As far as Dirk is concerned, to me it brings forth images of Dirk Diggler, hero of the wonderful Boogie Nights, but most certainly not the image I'd care to portray were I ever in the fortunate position of needing an image....although I was once of accused of looking a little like Mark Whalberg (I wish) and I do own a wha-wha pedal.

Derek

"If you want to write, write it. That's the first rule. And send it in, and send it in to someone who can publish it or get it published. Don't send it to me. Don't show it to your spouse, or your significant other, or your parents, or somebody. They're not going to publish it."

Robert B. Parker