I read a short story on the Kindle...

[delboy]

I just posted this on another thread and discovered that it would only be visible to crit group members. Thought it might be worthy of a more general discussion so here it is again:

I tried an experiment yesterday and download a book of short stories (free, thank goodness) onto my Kindle to see what the standard was like.

There was no indication of whether the anthology was professional or not...until I started reading. It was possibly the most awful writing I've come across in 40 years. I literally couldn't believe that this stuff was able to be published.

Not only did I delete it off my Kindle I also went into my Amazon account and deleted it from the archive, terrified that somehow some of that ineptitude would rub off on me 

Seriously, though, that one experience has pretty much meant I'll never do that again. I'll be sticking to authors I know, have had recommended, or want to investigate. No more of this random taking-a-chance stuff. Life is too short, reading time too scarce. More worryingly, if I wasn't a writer and a reader but more of a casual toe-dipper this type of experience could put me off reading altogether.


Derek

[ozmosis7]

What a shame. Even the likes of Stephen King, Clive Barker, Dean Koontz, Jack Ketchum, and many other great authors were unknowns at some point. Imagine if no one ever took a chance on reading their work. Hell, for that matter, imagine if no one takes a chance on reading your work.

[Prisoner24601]

There is some truly god awful stuff out there on amazon.  Even if you stick to paying books, especially on the cheap end, there's still a lot of crap.  I've downloaded a few 99 cent short stories that ranged from eye-bleeding awful to deeply mediocre.  Sometimes the terrible ones can be weeded out by checking out the preview, unless it's a short story.  Then you sort of take your chances, because the preview isn't long enough to show the quality of the writing. Reviews aren't necessarily helpful either. I've read horrible e-books that have a bunch of people giving it 4 and 5 star reviews, possibly through sockpuppets or just kind hearted friends and family.

Really, I think that probably a good 90% of the self published kindle books are the dregs of the slush pile, or at least what I imagine the slush pile to look like.  It doesn't help that if you read a lot of the big self publishing blogs, like Dean Wesley Smith's for instance, push the idea that it's more important to get a lot of stuff out there, then to spend time crafting and polishing up a piece.  But just like the slush pile, every once in a while, I'll stumble across a gem that makes it totally worth it (like this short story).

In some ways, seeing how many of the self published books are crap, sort of makes me want to take a shot and post my own stuff. Even on my bad days my stories are better than most of what's out there, if only because I know how to push nouns and verbs together in ways that makes sense.  On the other hand, I really wonder how authors manage to keep from getting lost in the crowd of terrible and mediocre stuff.

[delboy]

Oz, you're right, it is a shame. But it's symptomatic of the new world order - where quality has gone by the way. Anybody can put anything out there and consumers who have previously been prepared to take a risk now find that the odds on discovering a good new unknown are getting longer and longer.

I don't think the comparison to professional writers such as King and Koontz is quite the same thing. These guys are professional writers and, even when they were unknown, they had still been through all those hoops of learning their craft, finding an agent and/or a publisher, going through editing processes and eventually getting some professional product out there - all of which provided the validation that a professional business (whose sole job is making money from these people) had invested in them. That's a pretty good recommendation and is the sort of recommendation that I'm talking about (that said, it still fails – the worst novel I've read in years was a recent best-seller that I bought on a whim to see what it was like... It hasn't put me off trying out other best-sellers, but it's put me off him).

I applaud people who continue to randomly test the water with complete unknowns, but for me I already have more than enough reading to last a lifetime (many of the books and stories I'm thinking of haven't been written yet - but I'll be buying them when they come out! There's a huge chance that some of the writers I anticipate reading haven't even been born yet...but yes I'll be reading them). I look at it this way, if I'm spending time reading a poor effort by Self-Published Joe Bloggs I've potentially lost the time during which I could have been reading the first novel by someone who has taken the time to learn their craft and jump through all those hoops. There has been, there is, and there will be enough good writers that why should I bother with the bad?

I stand by what I said - no more random downloading of unknowns for me.

As for me – one of the things I've always needed in my fiction is the validation of someone else publishing it (for money!). At least then I feel it must be worthy of something, even if it's just ten dollars. Alas, such successes are rarer than rocking horse sh... droppings, so I guess me being an unknown is nothing more than a case of the natural order of things.

Final word, is that sites and groups like this serve as a way of getting one's work recommended, too. I can guarantee that had the person concerned spent a little time in the crit group here his work would have been far superior and he may well have a new fan.

[ozmosis7]

I would agree that the process should always be to improve one's craft. I think all here would agree with that.

As for the professionalism in the traditional means of publishing, the model is constantly changing. Even well-known authors are now self-publishing works (albeit through sites that make it more invisible to the reader). This is the battle we face as an author now days, not unlike the music industry is. It is about putting out the best you can, whoever you can.

Of course, I am not discounting traditional means by any sense. I think that is the dream of every author, young or old. It is still the absolute best method. But, it does not guarantee a read anymore than putting yourself out there. I know plenty of authors who have short run book deals that haven't sold out in several years. Someone has to take a chance on them before they gain any sort of ground in the industry.

Perhaps, my comparison of pros and amateurs was unfounded, but those pros were once amateurs. Just because someone printed them in Playboy or another magazine doesn't mean readers had to read their stories. Someone had to take a chance for them to be where they are today.

All life is about taking chances, and finding the things you enjoy.

I would have never discovered half of the music I enjoy if I hadn't taken chances. Just saying.

[ozmosis7]

Had to take the kids to school, but wanted to touch base on this some more.

I wanted to mention how lucky some authors were to be read in Playboy. I say this because contrary to belief, I don't think people have ever really bought the magazine for its articles/stories. Just a guess, though.

This next part requires some light to my background as both a reader/writer. The circles I few up in weren't those of the literary nature. My friends/family played sports, as did I, and I was actually ridiculed at times for spending hours in the basement of the local used book store. Some even wondered why I wasted my time taking literature and creative writing classes when I should be focusing on what I was good at, baseball and math. I am not "well" read, but have read many a story. I know what I like and do not like.

When I entered the writing community I was naive (sorry, don't know how to make the little symbol thingie). My thought was anyone could write, but it was more difficult to come up with an idea, than to put it to words. I've learned writing takes a lot of hard work, and much rejection. I have taken to it full-time for just over a year now, and even now it is a learning process. I don't hold any allusions it will ever be anything but a constant battle to raise the bar.

Thus far, during my writing career, here are some chances I took that have paid off. This means I enjoyed them enough to go back for more. Not all are listed, but some are very familiar. They came without recommendation, and purely was me taking a chance on someone.

-I watch a video of a guitar player I find on the forums. I enjoy it enough to watch that persons other videos, and now keep my eye out for any of Del's video posts.

-I open a thread with a picture of a tree on a landscape. It looks both creepy and beautiful. Now, I open all of Catherine's pictures because they are stunning.

-An author friends me on LinkedIn. I have no idea who he is, but his name is interesting. Money was good at the time, so I buy one of his books. Now, I am hooked on his book Off Season. The audio of Ketchum's book has an afterword that gives fantastic insight into the real world of publishing.

-I find bands I enjoy like Incubus, Impellitterri, and others

-I read a story by Robert Essig and like it enough to pay attention where he is submitting. I find Post Mortem Press because of it, and they publish These Trespasses.

This is just the short list, and in it, I have found many things I did not care for; art, music, writing, et all. But, without taking chances I may not have discovered any of these things. After all, I never came to this forum to watch guitar videos or view artwork. Still, I found it, and I enjoy it.

I will share the biggest lesson I have learned as an author. That is to remain humble no matter what level I achieve. I may not always be correct, or have the right insight, but I try to always be thankful. I see in other places, and have seen here, people say things such as, "I don't come here to make friends." Why not? I don;t get it. What is wrong with being friends over the internet, or admitting you enjoy something, although it may not be "perfect." It is a difficult thing to write  a good story. People should rejoice in those that even come close. I have read some amazing tales on this forum, one's that I would buy. I have made a promise to myself to never forget where I came from (if it ever applies). I think this is the hardest thing for an author; to take in criticism, learn, be humbled by it, see the purpose, and that all readers are not the same.

Anyway, sorry for the passionate response, but I wanted to get back to it. My 2 bits for what it's worth.

[delboy]

Passionately replies are good, Oz   

But all of those examples of taking a chance are rooted in some trigger: friends on a forum or a social networking site, investigating the influences or markets of an author or musician you already enjoy. To me those things aren't taking a chance, it's the normal route to expanding one's personal sphere of artists-one-might-enjoy. I do it all the time. I read interviews with people I admire and I follow the trail that leads backwards over their influences, or sideways to their contemporaries. Let's say I went on Kindle and downloaded one of your stories, that's not taking a chance, it's a cut-and-dried safe bet because I know you, I like what you do, I'm keen to see what you've come up with next. Same with Delph's pictures of torture engines (well, actually that's just because I'm a sicko...).

What I'm talking about is not going for any more totally random downloads on the off-chance I might stumble across something good. There probably is someone out there self-publishing novels and stories on the Kindle that would change my life. But the odds on me finding them... it's not needle in a haystack stuff, it would be like randomly finding a specific stem of hay in a field full of haystacks.

If I had that sort of luck I'd start buying lottery tickets.

[ozmosis7]

Hmmm, fair points. I see what you mean. However, I wouldn't discount this lottery thing. Trust me. 

[ozmosis7]

And, thanks for the compliment, of course.

[Geoff_N]

umm, and I was thinking of uploading some of my shorts to Amazon. No point if most downloaders have had the same experience as you, Del.

Having said that I recently read a short in Asimov's by a famous SF writer. I couldn't believe that could get published - it was so banal and obvious they published it because who he is. Shame for the rest of us offering our best to them and not getting in.

[ozmosis7]

This might be relevant...

http://www.techjournalsouth.com/2012/01/authors-making-a-bundle-through-kindle-direct-publishing/

[delboy]

No point if most downloaders have had the same experience as you, Del.

Go for it, Geoff. I'm probably quite unique in my attitude. Anyway, you're not an unknown - you're quietly building up a good rep 

[Prisoner24601]

Personally, my plan is to send my short stories through all of the available pro and semi-pro markets to where they'd be a potential fit.  If they don't sell, I'm going to put them up as short e-book stories for .99 cents apiece.  Sure, they're probably not going to sell much, they may even get lost in the shuffle, but it's got to be better than letting them sit unread on my hard drive where no one can see them.  And then there are some that I'm probably going to just toss up on Amazon once I finish them because there really aren't short story markets for that particular genre, and I think it would be a fun experiment.  The worst that can happen is that nothing happens, in which case I haven't lost anything but time.

But I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot of drek out there, and there are going to be some people unwilling to wade through the crap to take a chance. But some will. I know that I do anyway, and I can't be the only one.  But then I tend to view writing as sort of a experiment anyway, so I'm definitely interested in trying new stuff out.

[ozmosis7]

This is my plan, as well, Prisoner. I've given up on many of the lower end venues, especially after a few bumps and bruises. I have my target area, and if they don't make the cut I'll clean them up and pub them in my These Old Tales volumes, or perhaps another volume. Of course, I already had enough sitting aside to make up 2 volumes. 
Hopefully, some people find my stuff pleasing enough to come back for more.

[LashSlash]

all it ammounts to is a conspiracy by the publishers to take the slush-pile out of their ofiices and dump it on your kindles... i've mentioned this before  but nobody wants to listen....

.... in general, it's not what you write - it's who you know .... bikoman knows a bunch of people - who know a bunch of people  --- and thats the best way for bikoman, or anyone, to get a contract.. .